Molding techniques

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Molding techniques

From: Maul \| Posted: 9/30/2005 2:20:23 PM \|
KITT for now Posts: 182	Molding techniques My KITT nose will be ready for molding soon and I just wanted to get everyone’s take on this. As mentioned in another thread, everyone does some different things when making molds. A different thing I’ve read about lately is after applying gelcoat to a waxed and PVA’d part, then spread fiberglass “mud” (a mixture of Bondo and resin) in a sharp angle or potential weak spot before laying up the mat or cloth. Makes complete sense when you think about it but could there be any potential problems later on? Another question is surface material. Most everything seems to be gelcoat, but in the SR-71 build that Tim posted here, the guy sprays primer over the PVA, then a thick coat of resin, followed by ‘glass. When he pulls the part, the surface is now the primer. The parts seem to come out great according to his pics, but how durable would the finish be? Is the fact that it’s a polyester primer that I’m pretty sure requires a catalyst mean that it cures to a finish similar to gelcoat? If so, that makes sense. If a part is going to be painted anyway, do you really need the gelcoat? Sure, it saves you some prep time because the surface finish is better, but isn’t that pretty much all it is, just a better looking surface than just ‘glass alone? Thoughts? Opinions?

From: Kevin \| Posted: 9/30/2005 3:35:08 PM \|
Nodeman Posts: 906	RE: Molding techniques For the best quality, it is best that a tooling jell be used in your molds it gives you a surface that can be sanded and polished glassy smooth. It also keeps arrant strands from showing through spoiling your molds. Tooling jell is super hard and helps protect the molds. There are individuals that don't use tooling jell. For small applications or one time use this is fine. For long term use or commercial use it is not recommended. But it is all up to you...

From: Tim \| Posted: 9/30/2005 4:29:23 PM \|
Just build it Posts: 2411	RE: Molding techniques Adding some type of filler to tight corners is a good idea. you can do it like you described and you can also use strands of woven roven. The reason is without it, you are unlikely to get any glass in those areas and at best will have solid resin (which is brittle), at worst you will have an air bubble resulting in a void in your part. The primer that he was using on the SR-71 was Duratec grey surfacing primer. Yes, you do have to add a catalyst to it and it works much like gel coat. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what the main differences are between the two. So far it seems to be working for him. It's expensive, more than gel coat, I think. I plan to use it on the GC before molding it.

From: timb \| Posted: 9/30/2005 5:38:29 PM \|
Posts: 67	RE: Molding techniques plaster products are the best way to mold your car. hydocal 30 is the best choice.ben there done that,and its cheap and easy to work with,and it does not shrink.

From: BATGOD \| Posted: 10/1/2005 12:52:50 AM \|
Look familiar? Posts: 311	RE: Molding techniques Maul, I've got a little question for ya. Who built your nose? And did you, in fact, get their permission to pull a mold off of it? Here's why... I shipped all of my Knight Rider parts coated with a nasty little mixture of laquer, epoxy and enamel paints that resembles black primer. That is, of course, unless I had a prior discussion with the purchaser as to his/her intentions (ie, my favorite trade; "Hey Paul! Wanna trade Batmobiles?... Sure, you gonna pull a mold off it?... Yep!, You gonna mold mine?... Yep!... Cool!) If not... that screwed up combo of paints acts like a glue to gelcoat and sticks to both the part and the mold and generally makes a mess of both that needs to be sanded off both. Pretty ugly and time consuming. Why????? Because designers usually get pretty pissed off when you splash their work. One kit car designer in Florida threatened to have me in court "for the rest of my life" if I splashed the kit I bought from him. Another "Saintly" old Batman threatened to take out both my knees with a two-by-four. I've settled for custom marks on the inside and outside of my KITT noses that can be easily felt by putting your hand under the bottom lip of the nose. (I can tell it's mine by feel.) On one of my noses, those marks BETTER line up or what happens next is most fun... I take my big black Ford Dually... And I back over the front driver fender and nose of the KITT car, taking out the nose, the fender the sub-frame, the motor mounts and sometimes the steering rack... And I report the "accident" myself and wait for the insurance company to handle the claim on a 1982 Firebird. (Insurance companies total those cars out for about 2K) Doesn't hurt my dually at all. (OK, most of you that have seen my dually would say otherwise... but piss off to you! ) My point in this little story... Make sure the person you bought that off of knows your splashing it, and make DAMN sure he didn't buy it from me. KITT cars are the a$$-end of the movie car biz because there are 30 or 40 kids sitting home on their mommie's and daddy's living room floors watching Spongebob, glassing upper and center consoles and selling them for 20 bucks on eBay. We used to get 2K for a nose and now you can buy a sh#% one for a hundred buck "Buy It Now". Don't add to the stupidity! Get some sprayfoam and glass up a real car! "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" He MAKES them you idiot! www.tunergirlz.com www.codeoneauto.com

From: Maul \| Posted: 10/1/2005 1:19:36 PM \|
KITT for now Posts: 182	RE: Molding techniques Paul, Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. No, I don't have the blessings of the person I bought it from, but I'm not sure I need it. Let me explain. For those of you that don't know much about the Knight Rider scene, count your blessings. Paul's right, this seems to be the most saturated Star Car category (other than the General Lee) and most do seem to be younger kids that are trying to do it cheap and a lot of the cars end up looking like crap, if they're finished at all. I have to admit, I started pretty much the same way. I chose to do KITT when I was in college and it was a lot easier to find an '82 T/A than say a '69 Charger, much less start something the scale of a Batmobile. I also swore it wouldn't look like the others. I want mine to look like it was a factory option. While it won't be absolutely 100% accurate, it will look better, in my opinion. My nose is a Yancey special that was molded from an original. Actually, that's probably a molded from a molded from original. Again, a little backstory, and please correct me if I'm wrong Paul, a certain builder in Florida got his hands on an original nose and made a copy that he'd only sell on full turnkey cars so that there wouldn't be a ton of them out there. He also put one on an exterior only (or something like that) converted car that his wife drove. Yancey got his hands on it, splashed the nose and it went from there. Is that about right? You can definitely see where someone would get pissed about their product getting copied. Who wouldn't? When I put the nose on, I didn't like the way it fit at all, so started modifying it. I'll try and post some pics sometime, Jack. The main reason I need to mold this one is so that I can have one that doesn't have a can or so of Bondo in it. I wouldn't trust this particular one to hold up over time. When I lined up the center, one side was about a 1/2" past the fender and the other was about the same short. I've fixed that, added blackouts for the earlier season look, and chopped up the bottom to allow the front gfx to fit without cutting them or anything. I don't know if you've ever seen one of his up close, but the mounting flanges are total crap. I cut those out and molded some that actually follow the contours of the fenders, imagine that! All that, plus it wasn't someone's sculpt from scratch to begin with is why I'm not really concerned with getting permission. Plus, I don't plan on opening my own "conversion company" like so many have. If someone were to ask to buy one, I don't think I'd say no, but I don't know about openly selling them. In your opinion, do I need to ask permission? That sounds kinda smartass, but I assure you it's not intended to be. As far as getting some sprayfoam and making a real car, don't worry, I intend to!

From: Jimmy \| Posted: 10/1/2005 2:33:53 PM \|
I am the Jimmy! Posts: 117	RE: Molding techniques Hey, hold on there "batgod". Since when does someone need YOUR permission to mold the KR car? Did YOU design it? Is it YOUR intellectual property? Supply and demand, Paul. Supply and demand... If there are more suppliers out there, the price drops. That is how it works. That is why you can get a Batmobile for $6,500 these days. Does that make the "builders" happy? Of course not! But do they own the rights to the cars they STOLE molds to?? OF COURSE NOT! The builders just have to deal with it. Period. And yes, since NONE of you had permission from the ORIGINAL DESIGNERS to mold these cars, then you STOLE the molds. Plain and simple. You are the pot calling the kettle black. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Want to see my peanuts?

From: BATGOD \| Posted: 10/1/2005 3:16:18 PM \|
Look familiar? Posts: 311	RE: Molding techniques Nope... Got permission from EVERYONE I've made molds from their parts. The 89 molds were Jay's. He got permission from WB and we made cars from those molds. I got Jay's permission to use HIS molds to make my cars and even Bob's permission to make 89's. The rest of that is WB having a licensing disagreement with their original builder. I got Don's permission to mold a car that I traded with him. A car that he carved himself using parts that he got from Bob as a template. Bob gave him permission to do this and I in turn got the OK from Don. I purchased the Batcycle molds from Jay and got his permission to use them repeatedly. Not a "one-time" use kinda thing. He created those molds for the Polar Lights Batcycle promotion. They are HIS intellectual property and I'm using them with his blessing. Knight Rider... The original parts were created by Rob Louisell, who in turn sold the company to Diamondback Automotive of Stamford, NY. I purchased the molds from Diamondback and subsequently have their permission to use the original Rob Lousell carved parts. The hatch I "Splashed" was done so with the express permission of the owner of the original screen-used vehicle. Does he LOOK like I don't have permission to do this in his own garage? I delivered a General Lee to him and made repairs to the original Herbie in the background, his BTTF BMW and his convertible. (Someone backed into it with the Sanford and Son truck at a car museum.) My FEE for the work was the permission to mold the screen-used nose, dash (wiring was fried) steering wheel, and convertible hatch. Parts, I might add that were originally created by Jay for the series, regardless of what you might have read, and AGAIN I have Jay's permission to do so. The 95 was carved by an outside source who sold the vehicle to a friend who gave me permission to "splash" it as well. The car was never WB's property and if they've got an issue, it's with letting the sculptor make it in the first place. The Batski boat was again a purchase from Jay. The Knight 4000, again JAY's, sold to Butts, sold to me. Permission all the way around. I can do this with EVERY damn vehicle in my shop and every single set of molds. So don't go there. This is a VERY F'ed up industry with a lot of crazy builders with hot heads and guns. Jessie James is the least insane person in this business!(I've been on both sides of the trigger when it comes to dealing with other builders) Be VERY carefull or who you mess with when it comes to splashing without permission. Look at Mark's pics! Look at mine! Do we LOOK normal to you?!!! Is it such a stretch to imagine me and Mark, drunk and pissed at you, saying to each other..."Should we shoot him in the leg?... Naaa, let's shoot him in the a$$ that would be funnier!" I've NEVER splashed so much as a bat-belt buckle without clearing it with the original builder. And neither should you! "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" He MAKES them you idiot! www.tunergirlz.com www.codeoneauto.com

From: Maul \| Posted: 10/1/2005 5:43:29 PM \|
KITT for now Posts: 182	RE: Molding techniques I've NEVER splashed so much as a bat-belt buckle without clearing it with the original builder. And neither should you! Agreed, my point is that I'm not just splashing something I just bought from someone. I've done a lot of my own mods to it and there's not another one out there like it. If I were taking the nose exactly how I recieved it and making a mold, that would be extremely wrong. Again, I don't necessarily plan on selling these or anything, I just need one for myself that's a better quality. Plus the skills I've learned doing this will translate to other things, say a .

From: timwylie \| Posted: 10/1/2005 7:26:49 PM \|
Posts: 253	RE: Molding techniques I think the fact that you're just doing it for yourself removes you from needing permission. Once you buy something it's yours and you can do whatever you want with it. Now, to sell it (even with modifications) is making money off of something that you didn't make. Of course, you could just create a new mold using the measurements off of your modded one and then you would have created your own from scratch. Because, like Jimmy said, no one is paying for these intellectual rights with each one they sell. It seems to really be more about honor than legal rights.

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